Thursday, December 8, 2011

Speculative degrees of difficulty


How hard could it be?

Everyone loves a good round of blue-sky speculation and "what if"?  What if people could live for centuries?  What if electricity were too cheap to meter?  What if we could send messages telepathically?    As the wild ideas start flying, it can be hard to remember that some what if's really could happen in our lifetimes and some are, well, just impossible.

With that in mind, here's a sort of Mohs hardness scale (or maybe Beaufort scale) for speculative ideas, using aerospace as a running example (except the last item, where I couldn't come up with a suitable example for aerospace).  The categories here are broad, partly because there's a lot of ground to cover and partly in hopes that it will generally not be too hard to agree what category something fits in.  In other words, I've traded precision for accuracy.  The exact boundaries are not necessarily so important as simply asking what it would actually take to realize a given idea and getting a rough but believable idea of the answer.  Here's my proposed scale:
  1. Most people could do it easily.  Example: Making a paper airplane or something else that flies.
    1. Many people do it, particularly in richer countries, but at noticeable expense.  Example: Taking a trip on a commercial airliner.
    2. Only the richest individuals or smallish corporations could do it.  Example: Orbiting the earth (using someone else's rocket)  (see note a).
    3. Generally done by large corporations or small countries (see note b).  Example: Producing a system to put a satellite in orbit [actually, this is level 3 now, thanks to SpaceX. A better example might be manufacturing commercial airliners].
    4. Only done by large countries or groups of countries.  Example: Sending an interplanetary probe.
    5. Requires bleeding-edge technology in untested combinations and would require a concerted effort by one or more large countries.  Example: Sending a manned interplanetary mission.
    6. Requires yet-to-be built technology, but based on known principles.  Example: Getting any macroscopic amount of matter to any star (other than the sun) with travel time under a millennium (see note c).
    7. Does not require a new understanding of the universe, but no plausible technology exists, even on paper.  Example: Getting a manned mission to any star (other than the sun) with travel time under a decade in Earth's frame of reference (see note d).
    8. Would require a new understanding of the universe, but not logically impossible.  Example: Travel between galaxies on human time scales (see note e).
    9. No way.  Logically impossible or in blatant conflict with any reasonable understanding of the universe.  Example: Travel back in time.
    Note a: There's a bit of leeway here.  Orbital flights cost tens of millions of dollars.  Not many individuals could afford that, but the very richest are considerably richer than those who could merely afford a single orbital flight.

    Note b: "Large" and "small" here refer to economy (say, GDP), not population or area.

    Note c: To get to Proxima Centauri in a millennium an object would have to be traveling approximately 1/250th of light speed, or about 1200 km/s relative to Earth.  New Horizons maxed out around 20 km/s after it flew by Jupiter.  A probe with the same mass going 1200 km/s would require 3600 times as much energy.  An ion drive with an exhaust velocity of around 400 km/s -- the one propelling the Dawn spacecraft has more like 30 km/s -- could provide the required acceleration if the thing starts out as 95% fuel, but I'm completely handwaving about the power source.

    Note d: Traveling four light-years in ten years implies that relativity will become noticeable for at least part of the trip.  The (true) astronauts on board would experience a somewhat shorter travel time than mission control would.  Going a hundred times faster than the previous example would require 10,000 times as much energy.  Compared to the New Horizons probe, that's 36 million times more energy at the very minimum.  A real manned craft would have to be significantly bigger than New Horizons, even without a propulsion system (most of the New Horizons propulsion system fell away shortly after launch).  It would also be nice to be able to slow down when we got there, and, ideally, turn around and come back.  A factor of a billion is probably more realistic.

    Note e: At the very least this would require some form of faster-than-light travel, and not just a little bit faster like the famous neutrinos might or might not have been doing [They weren't, of course].  The Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, probably our nearest neighbor, is 25,000 light-years away.  To get there in a decade you'd need to be going 2500 times light speed.  The nearest big pretty spiral galaxy, Andromeda, is about a thousand times further still.  See the comments section for a little about why this is probably not level 10, and Wikipedia's article on faster-than-light for a lot more.

    3 comments:

    1. I enjoyed this one, not least because of the various cans of worms it opens. But first, I liked the size of the divisions. They seem evenly spaced. Maybe you worked it out so that each is a factor of n ($billion, Joules, man-hours) more than the last, maybe not, but I was happy with all but the distinction between requiring a new understanding of the universe and being logically impossible. My understanding of the consequences of relativity is admittedly vague, but I thought that one of the things that could happen if you allow FTL is that results could, in somebody's frame of reference, occur before their causes.

      But to the cans of worms: there are different kinds of hard. Is it harder to move a gram of material from here to Proxima Centauri than to knit ramen noodles naked out of doors in Antartica? To reverse your Karma? To play better than Yo Yo Ma? To choose the perfect gift for Aunt Ethel? To watch something really bad happen to somebody really good?

      Well. All that aside, it was worthwhile to point out just how hard it is to move mass from point a to point b, even a little bit, and how much scale matters. A little something for those who think population growth is to be acomodated by the colonization of other planets.

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    2. There wasn't a specific factor separating divisions. Like the Beaufort scale (to which I just added a reference), the idea was to give empirical guidelines to tell what category you're in. The exact examples may change over time, for example putting satellites in orbit should really be level 3. I'll fix the post to reflect this.

      FTL is not necessarily equivalent to time travel. For example, suppose I can click my heels and end up on the moon a second later. My friend already on the moon will radio back the instant I arrive, and we know how long it takes light to travel the distance (about 1.3 seconds), so we know you'll hear I'm on the moon 2.3 seconds after I disappear.

      When I get to the moon, I instantly click my heels again and arrive back a second later. That is, I arrive back a total of 2 seconds after I disappeared. Then, .3 seconds after that, you hear I'm on the moon. A bit odd, but logically no different from my driving to the post office, mailing myself a postcard and getting back home before it arrives.

      However, if stuff like this happened, we would have very serious doubts about special relativity. According to special relativity, what I did should take an infinite amount of energy, and there should be frames of reference in which it looks like I left before I arrived (again, that shouldn't violate causality, but it would sure look weird).

      Nonetheless, there are no mind-bending causal paradoxes involved here. Those happen in situations where you can come in contact with your former self -- a "closed timelike curve" in the jargon.

      To your can of worms:

      Knitting ramen noodles is clearly difficulty 2. Watching something bad happen to somebody really good is level 1, but here we get into "What do you mean by difficulty?" The difficulty being measured has to be objective, in the sense that it doesn't matter too much who's trying to do it. This is less of an issue at higher levels, since anything above level 3 is going to take the coordinated work of many people.

      I'm also only interested in the difficulty of making something happen, not the emotional difficulty of dealing with it or bringing oneself to do it (I'm sure Aristotle has a nice distinction for this occasion). That's why I say seeing something bad happen to someone really good is difficulty 1.

      The others are subjective and so don't apply here, though it's probably possible to tweak the wording such that playing better than Yo Yo Ma came out as level 2 or 3 -- on the assumption that if one were able to study and practice the cello as much as Ma, one would have at least some chance of playing better.

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    3. Well, you're right of course, but I can never pass up an opportunity to question the rules. I would object that not many people, even in richer countries, knit ramen noodles out of doors naked in Antarctica. It would have made the news. As for watching something really bad happen to someone really good, people do it all the time. Especially in poorer countries.It just hurts a lot.

      I guess I do object to the apparent equation of the difficulty of doing something with the number of people/countries required to pool their resources to do it. The US Army could surely find a way to make a bicycle go faster than 49 klicks an hour, but, ah, somehow that isn't the point.

      I learned about the Mohs scale when I was a teenager working as a guide at Onyx Cave, near Eureka, explaining to the tourists what Onyx was. Here are a couple of others I'm more familiar with today:

      .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_hardness_scale and
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale

      And then there're the Richter and the TORRO scale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TORRO_scale which I just now found out about. Essentially it takes the Beaufort up to 30.

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